Black voices & White voices
From My post at AOL Black Voices/BlackSpin:
I don’t live in a different world from any other American. But I experience that world as an individual, through the prism of my identity which consists of many elements including “race” as the concept has manifested in this country. As a black woman, I don’t see the world as a white male or white woman does. Another example, as an able bodied woman, my experiences are different from a disabled person’s. It would be uninformed for me to presume that although I am a supporter of the Disabled Rights movement, that our news and information priorities are always the same.
This is perhaps a long wind up to get to the question I’d like to address here. Frequently, visitors to the AOL site ask this:
Why no “WhiteVoices?” This continues to segregate no matter how you sell it. Maybe just “Voices‚” or “REGIONAL VOICES?” Just sets things back further. Not much of an INDEPENDENCE DAY positive movement. Really look beyond colors would ya???
My first reaction is always to wonder if these same people write to Time, Newsweek, Huffington Post, AOL’s Fanhouse or any other online forum host about the preponderance of white opinion on those pages.
It seems somehow that many white people do not see “white” as its own race and influencer on personal experience. They see black, brown, gold and America. Or they see black, brown, gold and “the rest of us.” They don’t think in terms that no matter what you call majority white opinion and news organizations, they are predominately and in essence “white voices.”
Those “mainstream,” i.e. white majority, forums generate topics and focus attention on issues editors decide are important to their primary readership – as does “Black Voices.” Like “Black Voices,” those staffs are racially integrated and articles are open to anyone to read and comment on.
One of the ideas I most oppose is the notion that recognizing differences in American experience is “setting things back further” or “divisive.” I really do not understand that. In my ideal America, we respect and honor the vibrant diversity of the United States. We see each others experiences and listen to what each other has to say and from that exchange we forge a fuller understanding of the world. Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. talked about being judged on the content of one’s character. Dr. King never, ever suggested that a person’s skin color would have to be rendered unspeakable or invisible in order for them to be considered equal.
It’s called racist subversion: In a nutshell, since the success of the civil rights movement and overt-in-your-face racism and bigotry is largely frowned upon. The racists have resorted to what amounts to an insurgency taken right out of something akin to George Orwell’s 1984. Whereas, any and everything involving race has been turned on its head.
Ignorance is Strength, War is Peace, Hate is Love, Lies are Truth, The Oppressors are the Oppressed.
(1) Whites can make racist attacks against blacks but when blacks complain about it or attempt to address it in any constructive way they are accused of playing the race card.
(2) Jim Crow Racism lives i.e. (the black man has no rights that a white man is bound to respect.) You can see this play out regarding any issues involving black people. Forget the fact that whites have continued to benefit and blacks continue to be disadvantaged by institutional racism. Let any black person anywhere get into a school a job etc and the racists throw a fit about how this is unfair to them as if though they are entitled by god to be the chosen ones when the choice involves choosing someone who is black. For example, they never complain about the other white people who beat them out for a position or a slot at a school. But let 98% of those people be white and 2% of them be black and all hell will break lose over the 2% blacks. Never mind questioning the credentials or lack-thereof of the 98% of whites in positions etc. The racists don’t see anything wrong with that. In other words, just another example of racist double standards.
(3) These racists always have some tough love advice for black people; work harder, get off welfare, pull yourself up by your bootstraps, leave the country. But when they feel like they are oppressed they never take the advice they so eagerly offer to others. I believe this is called white victimization. Which in the context of history and the modus operandi of this country is a lot of noise about nothing.
Therefore, I suspect that whites who subscribe to such non-sense are political operatives or their sympathizers. Or to use a term from their play book race-hustlers.
What should be scary to everyone is the fact that such obvious propaganda passes without little challenge and therefore appeals to weak minded-individuals who lack the ability to think critically about the most basic things. Those that have been impressed by such illogic just mindless repeat it. More troubling, is the fact that many important decisions are influenced by the acceptance of such propaganda.
Racism is a system, that system is our enemy.
August 24th, 2008 at 9:36 am -Rachism is and will forever be a part of the USA! Why- because it is very hard for the white people in this world to let go. Our ancestors were slaves back in the days and they continue to treat this generation that way! I am so proud of Sen. Obama for showing our black race that “Yes We Can” be all that the white people are today! The only problem is we have been denied our rights for so long until when one of us try to prove to the rest of us that it can be done some blacks just don’t get it. We have to exceed in everything we do thats why they call Sen. Obama the chosen one! It’s ok for a white lady to be inexperience for Vice President but a black “Senator” running for President with a degree at Har. & Pri. is more inexperienced than this white women with only a few months as Gov.
September 3rd, 2008 at 11:56 am -so morpheus, anyone can complain, what are YOU doing to affect change and reverse these systemic attitudes?
September 4th, 2008 at 8:53 pm -Carmen, yeah, it’s crazy. The fable seems to be that the US doesn’t have any powerful white-dominated institutions.
I’m hearing white folks in my extended family making exactly the complaint that Morpheus describes about admissions to elite colleges. Their kids aren’t getting into their first-choice HWCUs, but I really don’t think it’s because Harvard is all full up with Black students. To make a wild guess, I’d say it’s because the scapegoat mentality in the US is stronger than it’s been since the early Reagan years.
fcg#p, with respect, I’m also very uncomfortable looking at a scapegoating situation, then going to the victim and asking, what are you doing to change this?
September 5th, 2008 at 6:12 am -fcg#p:
(1) I think that there is a fundamental difference between an observation and a complaint.
(2) I am a firm believer in the motto: I don’t make the rules, I just have to win by them. And teaching others to do the same when appropriate is what I do. How about you?
(3) Before a problem can be solved you need to understand what you are up against. How it works, functions and from there you can plot an effective campaign to combat it. Racism isn’t about black vs white. It is simply a mask for class, a useful tool for dividing human beings along arbitrary social and political lines. Therefore, my effort is fundamentally about disconnecting people from a system that keeps them ignorant of the world they actually live in versus the one that they believe that they live in. Which by the way, is a direct result of a concerted effort to keep people stupid because when people are stupid they are easier to take advantage of, this is well understood in certain circles. Therefore, race, racism is a distraction a brilliant plan hatched by our collective masters to:
(1) Break up collective action against the powers that be–as people will selfishly support positions which they believe are in their collective self-interests. (2) To make the powerless feel powerful. (3) Distract them by constantly providing them with a scapegoat(s) to take out their frustrations, fears and anxieties on. Which creates the otherside of our problem but ultimately serves the same goal. If people are always defending against something then they don’t have time to fight for anything.
So, what am I doing about? (1) Every time I am in the company of someone black, white or otherwise who launches into a racist rant, I challenge them in a diplomatic non-treating way to defend their stupidity by asking thought provoking questions. This is very effective with the simple-minded because they’ve been locked into a pattern of thought that has been encouraged without challenge up-until-that-very moment. I am fortunate enough to be in a position where I have a lot of opportunities to do this on a pretty large scale. (2) I am smart enough to do it in a way that avoids the inoculation against basic reasoning that has gone into making a person resistant to the truth. (3) The by-product of this approach helps me to weed out political operatives or lone-wolves as their resistance is determined and predictable.
September 13th, 2008 at 1:49 pm -Ceja
(1) Racism will always be a part of the USA not because white people have a hard time letting go but because people are fundamentally ignorant and simple-minded. It is unfortunate but true that our society would not function well if people were less simple-minded and less ignorant. This is because:
(a) Our society is a hierarchy (like a pyramid) small at the top and large at the bottom. Therefore, just by the nature of its design the bottom will always be bigger than the top. There is no room and their never will be in such a structure at the top for the vast majority of people. Sure many will struggle to get there but only a select few will ever make it. That is just the nature of the beast.
(b) The rest of the pyramid the bottom 85% have people of all “races” scattered throughout. But guess who the majority of the people at the bottom are? If you answered black you would be wrong. Whites! Why? Because they are 70% of the poplulation and are the majority in every class. But wait a minute! Aren’t black disproportionately poor and on welfare and uneducated involved in the criminal justice system etc.? (1) a lot of people confuse disproportionate with literal majorities. (2) When something is disproportionate especially in statistics it means a higher representation based on over all share *if things were equal.* Poor whites and every day white people for the most part are rendered invisible. The whites that get to represent “white people” are largely from the upper-middle and upper classes. Turn this around and the people who get to represent Hispanic and blacks are largely from the poverty stricken, or upper classes. The black and brown working, middle and professional middle classes are render virtually invisible. Thus a Barrack Obama seem to appear to be something extraordinary when in fact he shares his class status with millions of other blacks.
Ceja Says: “I am so proud of Sen. Obama for showing our black race that “Yes We Can” be all that the white people are today!
This is just another of many illusions maintained in American society. Without taking anything about from his historic rise to power, there are a few important things to be aware of:
(1) In the late 1800 blacks were making progress in the country only to see the clocks rolled back for another 100 years or so. It happened once, it can happen again.
(2) I am sure you’ve heard the term “Great White Hope” Well, I’ve always been of the opinion that Barrack Obama is like the Great Black Hope for many in this country and even *if* he is elected, I am convinced that things will not change in a dramatic fashion. Furthermore, I am confident that his presidency will make little real difference in the lives of everyday black peoples. I fully expect that if Barrack Obama is elected (and you should too.)
(a) He will be hamstrung, scrutinized, demonized and will have to on occasion sing mammy for massa. As he had had to to already obvious non-sense.
(b) Reasonable people everywhere and especially blacks can expect to here the usual never-ending-parade of racist stupidity only this time with sentences that incorporate some reference to the “black president.”
September 13th, 2008 at 2:55 pm -morpheus, all I did was ask if you are working to make a difference. If your efforts are balanced and in earnest, I commend you. If you are provided with venues of a “large scale” to disseminate your views and you are cognizant of the responsibility that leadership demands.. more power to you!
September 14th, 2008 at 2:42 am -Neither of us has to be here, we choose to do so. As strange as this may seem, we are now mutually a part of each others peer group. I am providing a real viewpoint, not a caricature. I really hope that people don’t dismiss my contributions to the dialog as the ramblings of some stupid White guy that just shows up to act as a whipping post for everyone. Without “the white guy” there is no dialog, just a lot of re enforced monolithic viewpoints. Assuming that we have both come to the table with the same goal of achieving racial reconciliation, as uncomfortable as it may be, this is a start, this is the difference.
fcg#p
(1) All I did was answer your question as completely as possible. (2) I don’t believe that there was anything in my comments or that of others that would have suggested or indicated that you were a “stupid white guy” or a “whipping post” for the other participants on this forum. In fact, and you might be surprised that I agree with much of what you have to say. However, I disagree with the notion that there is no dialog without the “white guy” just “re enforced monolithic viewpoints”
The essence and the pervasiveness of racist propaganda has its roots in “re enforced monolithic viewpoints” creating the never ending parade of stupidity that is racist propaganda. Especially when much of this commentary is by whites
about non-whites. However, I don’t believe that the act of having a non-white be a part of that conversation automatically converts it into a productive dialog. While I understand where you are coming from, I think most would agree that non-whites
can have constructive dialogs about race without whites participating. Just as whites are capable of having productive dialogs about non-whites as so many do: (Tim Wise, Robert Jensen, Macon D at stuff white people do) This is just a few examples of white people talking about race in an intelligent and constructive way. But for all of their efforts these people are considered traitors for not giving in to tribalism. Therefore, let me assume that you are not suggesting that non-whites are incapable of having a “dialog on race” without the participation of whites.
(2) The requirements for anyone to have a constructive dialog on race is as follows: (a) Intellectual honesty (b) relatively accurate understanding of history, society and its real-world implications. (c) A desire for understanding that outweighs the ego driven impulse to be correct or to win etc. When the aforementioned attributes are present, the us versus them tribalistic behavior can be avoided.
Therefore, real progress is more likely to take place when people come together for the goal of helping themselves first and others second. Because when you reverse the two you are likely to feel that you are doing someone else a favor and your efforts are likely to end in frustration.
With peace and love my brother.
September 18th, 2008 at 7:53 am -I believe that blacks are more racist than whites. If a white person travels in the middle of the hood, he has a good chance of being shot. Black people can say racist things about whites, but whites can’t say racist things about blacks. I personally believe that we are all equal. There shouldn’t be a black history month or a white history month. Also, why do people assume that minorities are oppressed?
September 20th, 2008 at 9:40 pm -Hello David. Welcome to the conversation. You bring up some much repeated statements, but in discussions of race specifics are everything. So to engage further, I have a couple of questions for you because I need more information:
1. Please share with us a couple of specific examples supporting your assertion that blacks are more racist than whites. Please be very specific.
2. Every month is white history month. If you disagree, please explain in detail why.
3. Who is assuming minorities are oppressed? - please be specific with examples.
4. Where is the hood that you are referring to? Since most victims of crime are of the same race as their assilant,and all people face an increased chance of becoming victims of violence in certain areas, I am not sure where you are getting your information that it is only whites. Please be specific about the locations and circumstances of the “shootings” you refer to.
I look forward to reading your detailed answers. Thanks for reading.
September 21st, 2008 at 6:27 am -The first post is unbelievable. It’s OK for Whites to be racitst but when Blacks respond, they are playing the race card? If any white ever makes any type of race remark, they are crucified for it. Blacks can call whites anything they want, Cracker, whittie, Honkey, Caveman, White Crap, etc,, you name it. But if a white refers as Black instead of African American, they are “racist”. When is everyone going to see, Only whites can be racist!! The election may be a suprise to a lot of people!!
October 19th, 2008 at 7:30 pm -This is an interesting site and I never knew it existed. These things are good if people will give it a chance and talk about their experiences. First I am a white lady that has had many experiences with many people of different backgrounds. I would like to relate some stories about some great people that I worked with in the past and some horrible people. One one job in NYC I worked with a black man and if it were not for him I would not have found intelligent life on this planet. The white people I worked with including the boss to a small degree were complete morons.It was a friendship, he was married with for kids. We talked about life, the job and many other things. The boss moved to another business and took us with him. They told my friend not to come for a week because there was not work to do. He quit. I was freaking out. What a pack of white horrors. I even went to my boss and said, why did you let my co-worker quit? They made me sick. My co-worker did not deserve that, he was a great person. It was not race, it was because they knew we were friends. At least I realized that later on because they did the same thing to a girl that took his job. The girl and I became friends, very sweet, so they fired her too.
October 22nd, 2008 at 4:19 pm -I had another job, different industry and I met up with a lovely golden girl who was a dream to work with. Unfortunately we were split up at the job and then later I quit because the job was a horror show.
Many of my job experiences for white bosses were horrible. I was watched all the time, they were looking for something to pick on. Example of such a situation. I was a very hard worker. The manager complained to the big boss that I was not doing my job.So the big boos went over the sales records to try to get me. As it turned out I did the most and he was the one not doing anything and was forced out. The Lord was with me. The manager was a white mental case. I feel for anyone who experiences some kind of discrimination at work. And let me tell you, there is tons and tons of white on white discrimination out there. What is comes down to a the spirit of unkindness and lack of love for a fellow man.Love.
that is too much to read, I don’t know of a problem, for now, everything is ok. I work 5 or 6 days a week, if I need more money, I will work a part-time job, if I can find it. What is the problem? Maybe you can”t find a part-time job? Have you looked and care about it? Look for a full time job.
October 25th, 2008 at 7:53 am -Pay taxes and get Social Secuity when you need it, and not when you can get it.
Spread the wealth is Socialism and if you don’t know what that means, it is like living in Russia! Just go there and stand in line for tolet paper; That is what is comming.
i dont know what problem fcg#p has, but i found morpheus not “complaining” but laying out some good stuff! people, so funny.
October 28th, 2008 at 8:39 am -I am pulled to all of you who are concerned about the continuing racism in America. I will share some genuine truths with y’all why the white and black continue to hate each other. In my book THE BLACK AND WHITE RACE RATIONALE WHY THESE TWO RACES BEHAVE THE WAY THEY DO AND THE SOLUTION TO THE RACE PROBLEMS IN AMERICA, i explain why the black american race and the white american race are divided. The Black American race is not a genuine race. I project many people will say this a false statement, but listen. Some examples of a genuine race are the Chinese, Norwegian, Japanese, Germans, and Africans. The reason that these are genuine races is because in the begining they were created by God, each whit their own genius, their own language, their own culture, and their own way of life handed down by their ancestry. Now, let us look at the Black American race and see who created them. When the whites brought the Africans to this country to work as slaves they were indeed a genuine race created by God with all of the characteristics of the races mentioned above. Immediately the American White race begins to deliberately and systematically push all of the African genius, the African language, the African culture, the African way of lifehanded down from their ancestry, and the African religion from the center of their being to the circumference. This made sure that after one or two hundred years there would not be anything of Africa left in this race of people. If you add the Willie lynch brain washing process purchased by the White Americans on the bank of the James river in 1712 to adminster to the resisting African slaves you will be able to see clearly as in noon day light that the Black American race was created by the White American race. Everything that the Black American race has in him today was put there by the White American race, you may ask then why can’t Black Americans and White Americans be in harmony together. There was one thing the White race was not willing to share with the Black American race, that one thing was “WHITE RATIONALE” this guaranteed that the White race would always have a higher degree of understanding than the Black American race. If a race of people was not created by God but by man, then that race of people will not be on a solid foundation which will result in a lot of rejection from all the other races. The solution to this infernal problem is found in my book. http://www.authorbobray.com
October 29th, 2008 at 7:43 pm -robert j. ray -
I hope you don’t take offense that I disagree with most of what you say here. The world is dominated by the western european influence. 1000 years ago, that was not the case. In a thousand years’ time I doubt it will be the case then. We can say that the western european influence is ‘white’, but since we all (especially in the U.S.) subscribe to it in some form or another. As an example, consider your opinion of Iran. What information do you base that on? Would you consider Al-Jazerra a pro-Arab news source or an anti-American one? How would you classify Fox News?
When I was younger (teenager), I used to thing that the phrase ‘there’s only one race - the human race’ was as about as hokey as anything could get. As I got older, I began to realize the truth in those words as I saw what made that statement true. After reading your passage, I am now more determined than ever to make sure that my children understand those differences.
I think what really got to me was your description of how God created the seperate races - I think that is a really harmful way to look at explaining the differences between peoples of different ethnicities and backgrounds.
To me, the problem comes when we begin to see each other as creatures separate but equal within ourselves. Then you say things like ‘white race’, ‘black race’, ‘Chinese race’, and etc, then you give license to arguments that produce (and apply) principles such as the ‘Bell Curve.’ This also gives license to arguments that state that people from other ‘races’ should not mate. When people are classed as separate races, then the argument to justify abomination (and persecution) of ‘race-mixing’ becomes ever easier.
More harmful (and in fact my case), suppose that a person has a mixture of ‘races’ in their background. Who determines which race that person belongs to? What if that person is not accepted into (or made to feel inferior to) a community based on ‘purity of race?’ These conflicts happen constantly, and I have always felt that the steadfast clinging to ‘race’ as an identifier was the core issue.
There is only one race - homo sapiens (sapiens), and we are all slight variations on this generic template, formed by the survival of our ancestors ala Darwinism. The real differences come from what can be defined as our ethnic and cultural backgrounds. The term ‘white race’ has a completely different meaning than ‘ethnic white’. Just as ‘black race’ has a different connotation than ‘ethnic black’.
When we say things like ‘white race’, we are lumping all peoples of a specific skin color in the same laundry basket. But then the burden to know the differences between ‘anglo-saxon’ white, eastern-european white, and a west-european jew is nil. Aborigine is ‘black’ to an Australian, but we don’t associate them as ‘black’ here. I don’t think that we would refer to someone with a dark complexion from Turkey as ‘black’, but Germans would. So the only solution would be to continue breaking down the definition of race to make a particular group seem more pure and exclude more groups.
‘From prejudice, we find pride. From bigotry, we find brotherhood.’
October 30th, 2008 at 12:39 pm -It’s a really ugly quote; more so when you realize that anyone can subscribe to it.
I begin by saying I think it is a mistake to underestimate anyone. If doing so is your way, then you are bound to be unpleasantly surprised. Resourcefulness and ingenuity appear everywhere you don’t expect it. What this means is that there is potentially no end to the talent of humans, and this talent appears everywhere in the world.
One of the posters stated “racism will always be part of the USA because it is very hard for the white people of this world to let go.”
I think everyone knows what kind of “white people” Ceja is talking about, but I am not one of them and most of the white people I know aren’t like that either. We want what everyone else wants. To take the example of the kind of leader we want, it is someone with common sense, capability, and the intangible gifts of leadership, plus the essential ingredient — credibility — and let us hope, basic decency, and we’ll join in. I’m not looking for a Messiah, just someone like I described.
As I learn more about this world, I see that the decency we do have has been sustained by peoples all over.
The racist element also exists everywhere. It is a fact of life for everyone. It will be until they evolve out of it or else become extinct. The survival of the fittest seems to me to demand one or the other, because these people are not fit to survive. They are not up to the task of existing with their equals; so, if they cannot, they will go.
Another of the posters said that Europeans have dominated the world for the last 1,000 years. Actually, it has been from about 1500 to 1950. That makes 450 years of their nonsense, and it is now over. Remember what Ghandhi said when someone asked what he thought of European civilization?
He replied that he thought it would be a good idea.
So what’s next? Do I look like Miss Cleo? It’s what we make of it.
Love to all,
November 1st, 2008 at 8:35 am -Jim
Jim Johnson -
November 1st, 2008 at 11:34 pm -I think you misundestood what I posted (unless there was another 1000 years comment). I noted that 1000 years ago, dominant culture was not western european, and that it would not likely be western european culture that dominates 1000 years from now.
Thank you, Grampa Caligula. I did misunderstand you. And I appreciate your correcting me.
I wonder if anyone in particular will dominate in another thousand years. We seem to be opening up and developing so quickly that it is impossible to know what will happen next, both positively and negatively.
The other side of the issue is who will be submissive, and why. I hope and pray it will not be because they are forced to be submissive. This is really a confusing question for me, but I know submission is as big an issue as dominance.
All the best!
November 2nd, 2008 at 1:47 pm -Jim Johnson
Lets not forget obama is 50 percent WHITE. Why then is he a black man more than a white man. This in itself is racist!
November 2nd, 2008 at 9:49 pm -Hello Jan, welcome to the conversation. In America, Barack Obama is treated as a ‘black man.’ He self-identifies as black although he pays constant and deep tribute to his mother, grandmother and grandfather.
What is “racist” about the fact that he calls himself black?
I’ve been working the phone banks for Obama. Believe me when I tell you that the white folks who call him a ‘nigger’(explaining to me why they will not vote for him) don’t care one iota that he is biracial. That is the kind of characterization he has faced throughout his life.
November 3rd, 2008 at 12:50 am -jaja! he’s “racist” for identifying as black. boy carmen, you spend some good energy trying to school fools. “good on you” as the brits say.
November 3rd, 2008 at 6:20 am -Carmen,
Wasn’t there an old Jim Crow rule (or maybe before) that you were considered black(Colored) if you had’one drop’ of Negro blood?
November 3rd, 2008 at 5:02 pm -n-2-me-i-c-
According to a page I found tucked away on the University of Dayton website, the rule appeared to be the 1/8 rule. Some investigation on Wikipedia turns up a number of instances where the ‘one-drop rule’ was applied legally.
http://academic.udayton.edu/Race/02rights/jcrow02.htm
November 4th, 2008 at 7:46 am -and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-drop_rule
In my opinon whites folk r always gonna b mad n complaint about everything. that y they a real old lookin at 20 they look 45 n want 2 get mad at black cause we look so young for our age. we as blacks have already prove to whites that we r betta then them. n every way to me they r lazy,always loadin up on freebies n for some reason believes the world belongs to them just them. WELL WHITE PEOPLE ITS NOT YOURS ITS OUR NOW SO DEAL WIT IT SORE LOSERS. U PEOPLE HAD HUNDREDS OF YEARS TWO GET IT RIGHT. GUESS WAT U FAIL AGAIN N AGAIN N YET AGAIN NOW MOVE OVA N LET THE PEOPLE WHO SHOULDA BEN RUNNIN THIS COUNTRY FROM THE B GANNIN RUN IT. n MAKE NO MISTAKES AT ALL WHITE PEOPLE,WE ANIT NO YES SA BOSS BLACKS AT ALL. YALL MISS THEM DONT YA. NEVER AGAIN BELIEVE THAT WHITE PEOPLE. NOW JUST SETTLE DOWN WHITE PEOPLE B 4 WE PUT U PEOPLE AT THE BACK OF THE BUS.THINGS HAVE CHANGE N R CHANGIN EVERY DAY. WE R THE NEW BREED OF BLACKS,WE DONT NO NOTHIN BOUT SALVERY N WE ANIT TRY TO HEAR IT.SO LET US STAY TOGETHER N PREY TOGETHER.
November 29th, 2008 at 12:29 pm -surly surly i say to my black peeps it is time to tell our childred n grand childred about the willie lynch letter. n i wonder how many black peeps ven no about this letter. serch it on google n make copyies pass them out to black familys. so we as black peeps can really no what really happen n the 17 century wit a nasty greasy fat white man call willie lynch.then u will began to under stand the ys about the lightskinned n the darkskined blacks the ys about not having a culture n our own language. explain to our hildren how this very nasty dirty big fat greasy white man n a red coat came up wit a plan to turn us aganist each other just the way u no as bein black the things we say about eah other it all stems from this man. he had the nerve to sell this package to whites slave owners. (wow dont that sound foreign now slave owner never again.)but sad to say it worked all the way up to today well let me correct somethin all the way up till november 4. 2008. this nasty man promise white slave owner his plan would last all the way up to 2012 wow. well we made a lier out of him november 4 2008. but wat we as blacks need to do is understand wat really happen back then.because we will never find this n a america history book.yu’ll only find negtive slave storys yr. afta yr. we need to change things for the futures of blacks now barak obama has open up doors for us.tell our peps the thurth y we dont have much of a culture n our own language y our some of our a lot of them get famous n rich n pick that woman that looks nothin like the image of his black mother such weakiness we must break.lightskinned blacks think they r betta then darkskinned n they r not cause if u notice alot of blacks that looks close to whites has bumpy faces n bad skin n they tend to look a lil old before time. were as darkskinned skin is so youthful n smooth less bumps n hold youth at old age tell me they dont most of us dark one do. SO BLACK PEEPS THE BIGGEST CHANGE HAS HAPPEN BARAK OBAMA LETS CHANGE THE REST IT A PIECE OF CAKE WE CAN START WIT OUR YOUNGIN RITE IN THE HOME. LOVE TO ALL MY BLACK PEEPS.
November 29th, 2008 at 1:33 pm -I feel a bit of sorrow for the world when I think of the divisiveness that has and will, unfortunately, continue for some time.
I know that I cannot affect how others think and act, only myself. As a white male, I am proud to be who I am, although I do not claim responsibility for the actions of my ancestors. I do not look down upon anyone simply because of the color of their skin or background, religious beleif, sex, etc.. As a matter of fact, I do not look down on anyone.
Morpheus,
You speak some interesting points, and I appreciate your point of view, however, it definitely has its own “opinionated” tone to it.
“(1) Whites can make racist attacks against blacks but when blacks complain about it or attempt to address it in any constructive way they are accused of playing the race card.”
It seems that the “victim” role is still being played pretty hardcore. I have seen the other side of this statement as well, and it’s unfortunate that one would make such a one sided statement, and not be able to see things from both sides.
I live in a neighborhood that is very diverse as far as ethnicity goes, and I can say from firsthand experience that even though I am respectful of everyone, I am definitely not treated with the same respect out of what I can only assume is anger toward my skin color as a whole. I think the defensiveness has gotten a little out of control, and has gone further than it was ever meant to go, and has now turned those folks into the very thing that they have hated so much for so long.
I just keep contributing to the world, working, paying my bills, keeping my eyes open, learning, and treating everyone with respect regardless of whether they want to return that respect or not. I pray that one day we can all stop pointing fingers and fully respect one another, and the illusion of racial difference in the world is put to rest.
Ceja, forgive me if it sounds a little like maybe you need to let go. The anger is easily felt through your post.
I hope everyone is well, and God bless.
December 1st, 2008 at 9:54 am -It offends me greatly that the name of this website is called Black Voices. If white Americans promoted a website of this nature on AOL, people would be screaming racism. Like many other white people in America, we are concerned with the reverse discrimination that is prevalent today. White Americans are expected to be politically correct; however, other races do not have this expectation. We cannot have White Entertainment Television, yet there is BET. Although many black people say that they are not racist, it is blatant racism.
December 1st, 2008 at 1:49 pm -Hey Diana, welcome to the conversation. Please re-read the post closely. Thank you.
December 1st, 2008 at 1:58 pm -Dear Diana,
Be thankful you don’t have BET.
December 1st, 2008 at 9:47 pm -The most relevant thing that Mr. Robert J. Ray fails to present in his book is
December 2nd, 2008 at 10:33 am -African Negros are BLACK….no I mean the color BLACK…All of the peoples that
live in Kenya are dark BLACK..where as the peoples in the United States who are
Negros are caramel in color..The reason for this is that over the last 400 years
since the first Negros were brought to the Americas their women were
used by the “white masters” for fun and pleasure…The “white masters” used the
Negro women for warmth in the winter nights ….Some Negro men were allowed to
have families , but most of the conjugal relations were performed by “white masters”
that is why 99% of the Negros now in the United States are of mixed and caramel
colors… some in the South use the phrase “Creole”. Look it up….Most Negros
in the Americas are some , large or small, percentage white.
Grampa Caligula,
I know this is a little late, but thank you for answering my question about the “one-drop rule.”
Also, the websites you referenced were interesting (and ugly) but nevertheless true.
Thanks again.
December 3rd, 2008 at 12:03 am -Just wanted to say that not only can whites not have a site like this.How about the naacp,united negro fund, I am white and from the south,I also am part indian and god knows what else; But i picked cotten with the blacks, ate with them, played music with them ,And yes was looked down on by the rich just like them. The only difference was the color of our skin. more than once we picked cotten for the blacks,they owened property an we didnt. Inever disrespected them wasnt raised that way. And what really gets to me is how they think thatthey are the only ones who ever had it hard . Sure we went to different schools, so what the hell; We didnt have money for lunch and there was no free lunch. So now all of a sudden [ I bought and sold them into slavery , Iam the reason for every thing that ever happened to them just because im white .They can say whitey , but i cant say negro, And for some odd reason i cant find the white college fund listed.Now we have a black pres. who is realy black and white but is only called black.Oh and what about the indians. Can they have a voice?Can they have any thing after all they are the only true americans and have been treated badly by all races
December 11th, 2008 at 8:33 am -wow martin luther kind huh i dont look up to black american honestly its bogus i focus on white america im all about bettering the white race and hope someday to be the one to give back to the cacasuion race i look up to stong white ppl who r not afraid to speack there mind
December 22nd, 2008 at 10:11 am -I’m going to call bullsh!t on the diversity thing.. Here is my own personal feeling.. A blog called black voices IS divisive and its utter bigotry. Having been raised and gone to school in Philly, where I was the minority, I took as much bigoted commentary as any black woman, FROM the black people.
EVERY friend I had including my adopted sister was black, and although I had certainly never oppressed them, treated them as substandard.. behaved as if I were better. I was in fact treated that way repeatedly until one brave little girl stepped up and told them they were worth less than the prejudiced white folks she’d dealt with.
What did she earn for that? They tormented her for weeks.
I don’t want to hear that your particular brand of blog isn’t racist. It most assuredly is racist and it is divisive.
And here’s another point. playing the race card DOES happen.. quite frequently..
By virtue of the African American nomenclature you yourselves encourage it… I’m Native American, but I don’t run around choking that down someones throat, toss it into the fray.. there are NO.. NONE ZERO native American shows on television. .. never have been, probably never will be…It’s not a hot topic on my Native American blog and do you know WHY??
I may BE Native American.. but its not first and foremost in my mind.. I don’t have to name my ancestry to force it into someones face. any more than my French German Irish American mother calls herself all those ridiculous names..
WE…. like you.. are Americans.. and forcing someone to call us Irish, German French European Americans.. is the height of stupidity. and a bigotry in its own right.
I’ve been hassled by whites for have black relatives.. hassled by blacks for being too damn white and in reality.. I”m neither.
Black voices is absolutely acceptable and of course we should smile, and shut the hell up.. but all hell would fall on our unsuspecting heads if we open a blog tomorrow called Caucasian voices.. Now THAT of course would be bigoted and devisive.
You know what I found out, a long long time ago..
December 26th, 2008 at 10:21 pm -It doesn’t matter WHO the bigot is.. or what color they are.. its all wrong.. and It is ALWAYS ugly.
Greetings Lady Macbeth welcome to the conversation. Would you please share your specific definition of “racist” and provide some specific examples of where you find All About Race to be racist? I think that would really help me understand what you are saying. Thanks for reading.
December 27th, 2008 at 12:16 am -Being a Master of English, I dont’ think bandying semantics is going to take us far do you..
However, I suppose my definition of racism would be that offered by most of the dictionaries of the world.
A doctrine that tells me that there are inherent differences among the various human races which will determine cultural or individual achievement and that one race is superior to another in some way..
What is my problem with Black Voices?
Specifically this..
Black voices, is in fact separatist in that it encourages ONE group to respond,(the black voices in this case) ONE group to complain (in many cases about the other, which doesn’t in fact promote unity, but instead, keeps the races apart, fuels the fire)
It encourages that one group to feel superior, much as the white race has done for ages. Wherein lies the difference then, between the two?
In reality there isn’t one. If I put up a caucasian voices blog, EVEN if I hire five black voices and five white ones.. what am I saying to the world.. that MY voice.. the voice of MY Color ( AND WHY.. do we stress color).. should be heard first, is somehow more important than yours..
Which isn’t at all the case.. if you want to be politically correct, do a Rainbow voices or some other fluffy bunny crap..LOL.
Quite frankly I’m the least prejudiced person in the world BECAUSE of my experiences with prejudice, however.. I’m also the least politically correct..so on a personal level I have no problem with Black Voices. What I’m saying is that you promote Black Voices here to the exclusion of another several races, who may feel when they read the title, that they certainly have no place here and there voice isn’t one that is welcome or wanted..
As to my viewpoint, it likely differs from your own. It may be that you would see Caucasian Voices as a slap in the face to your race. I don’t view Black Voices as that, but I do see it as elitist, promoting YOUR agenda, and not any level of unity of spirit working with another group to change their viewpoint, or build a future.
If it were, perhaps black and white voices, Racial Equality Blog, Gray voices even.. LOL. then you’d invite interaction, learning, perhaps even mutual respect.. as it is.. you promote black people to join you, white people to feel excluded and Native American people to just not give a damn.
December 27th, 2008 at 9:41 am -(( LOL and please cross out that typo for me would you.. “there voice isn’t one” and switch it out fast to Their voices.. so I look a bit less illiterate..
December 27th, 2008 at 9:43 am -Lady Macbeth, for me language precision is everything. So to answer your question, yes. I believe that parsing language and understanding what a word means to the person I am communicating with is the only way for us to “get very far.”
Further, in the interest of dialogue, I would suggest you read my manifesto at All About Race a little more closely to get a sense of me - if you’re interested. I would have no problem whatsoever with Caucasian voices. None. And many of the generalizations you make about black people do not fit me or the readers in this community here at AAR.
And if you read the comments over at AOL’s Black Voices, you will see that white, Asian, Latino and Native Americans leave many, many comments. Some don’t feel welcomed, and they feel entitled to say so. Others simply comment on the content presented like any other person reading the site.
I simply do not understand how having AOL Black Voices, or Latino Voices, or a Sports site or Women’s site (all of which can be found on AOL) means that any group is “inferior.” Or why you would think any of these sites “elitist.”
We will agree to disagree. Thank you for reading and commenting here at All About Race.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:10 am -@ Lady Macbeth, it is my policy not to fix typos in comments. As you can imagine changing comments after the fact would be a slippery time eating and intent changing slope. There are plenty of comments I have made that I would prefer to revise, but I resist and live with it.
Of course you are literate and your fix is now noted in the thread. Peace.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:26 am -Firstly let me say that they are not generalizations about an entire race or group, they are, in fact things that I have personally dealt with, in a wide array of black white and Native people.
At no point to you view me to say.. All Black people, or all Native people, so perhaps that’s your viewpoint of what I meant, it is not however the reality.
Seeing people as individual is what its about.. not lumping them together in neat little categories that they don’t fit and wont stay in quietly..L*.
For the sake of argument, let me say this, I personally feel that we need to promote our sense of pride in self, in accomplishment and in our race, while promoting a feeling of unity with other races, and that part of so doing is using titles that afford others a feeling of welcome and being “part of the gang”.
As you say, titles, names, and correct expressions are VERY much a part of doing that.If in fact people are expressing that they don’t feel welcome, then we’ve failed in promoting that, haven’t we?
One of the things I made sure I did with my own son, after taking so much bigotry during my childhood, was to make sure that he DIDN’T behave that way or let thoughts like that enter his mind.
Socialization, and interaction is a key element in that.
I knew I was a success when one day , I pointed at our friend James, a VERY big black guy, and at his daddy and said, David, whats the difference between Daddy and James..
David looked at me like I was an idiot and said.. Mommy, James is a LOT bigger than Dad..
At that point I knew I was a success.
My point is this. If we discourage that interaction by the use of the Title we select, or we discourage that interaction because of the naming of a particular thing, then we’ve killed ourselves before we begin.
While you state you would have no problem with the White Voices blog, I’d be willing to bet that I’d have death threats on the table in a week and nasty grams from half the erstwhile folks who believed that, and consequently, ME, to be bigoted.
I don’t accept that comparing a sports blog, or a womens blog( which are groups that multiple races and genders could belong to) to a racial group is a reasonable comparison.
Agreeing to disagree is perhaps the best bet if you actually let my comments sink in.. I think that accepting that we can’t be right all the time and being willing to say, Hey you know, I dont’ agree but I can understand WHY they might feel that way so let me think about what I can do to change that” is a reasonable way to handle it. We NEED to be willing to consider.. ACTUALLY view it from someone elses viewpoint, as opposed to closing our minds however.
On the same track however, let me ask you what you feel about hearing that Warren would be playing a part in the festivities when Obama is settled into office..
I’d have to say, after having worked hard to get past the bs rhetoric in a hard right wing midwest and work for Obama, that on so many levels, his choice offends me.
Robbi.
December 27th, 2008 at 10:37 am -Oh my goodness I wish I’d not found this site this week when I’m already busy, but I do need to comment on this one
—————————————
“white is right”
wow martin luther kind huh i dont look up to black american honestly its bogus i focus on white america im all about bettering the white race and hope someday to be the one to give back to the cacasuion race i look up to stong white ppl who r not afraid to speack there mind
———————————————–
December 27th, 2008 at 10:43 am -What an absolutely offensive handle and what utter rubbish you talk. There is no “white” America and “black” America. there is just America with multi cultural and multi faceted people living there.
Not looking up to Dr King is impossible if you know the first thing about the man.
He didn’t preach Black politics and White politics, he simply preached a doctine of acceptance..
I found your comments far more offensive than anything I’ve read this week.
I look up to ANYONE who is strong and sure of themselves in todays world. Can we afford to discount someone because of their race.
Hypothetical question.. LOL. would you admire the black doctor who cured your cancer, or is that unacceptable because you don’t look up to the black race..
My politically incorrect response would be..
Grow up, both personally and intellectually..
and get a spell checker.
@ Lady Macbeth - I am truly glad you found us! And regarding Rick Warren:
http://www.allaboutrace.com/2008/12/23/rick-warren-and-the-invocation-the-discomfort-of-inclusion/
December 27th, 2008 at 10:51 am -Agreed.. but only on one level and still feeling a bit on edge about it. Inclusion is one thing, but inviting someone who, to the gay groups is what the KKK was to civil rights, is troublesome to me.
My biological son is white, 2.4 children etc..but does a photo journal on gay couples called Love on Any Level, and my other son is adopted. he’s also gay.. hearing that the man who promotes gays as pedophiles and incestuous folks is going to be raised up on any level,viewed as someone that is seen as being “honored” by Obama still irks the daylights out of all of us if you want the truth.L*.
Incidentally, Love your name. My favorite teacher in an all girls school in Philadelphia back in the dark ages was a gorgeous black lady named Carmen who danced like a dream. It brings back great memories.
December 27th, 2008 at 11:12 am -Pops in.. Off Topic, to Wish everyone a safe and happy New Year. Whatever your race, color or creed, be kind to yourselves and to each other this year..
December 31st, 2008 at 10:29 am -Happy Holidays.
Robbi//aka, Lady Macbeth
The issue of race will not only be an issue it will become a major issue and possibly one that will see further decline in the nation. The larger issue being that white America is threatened and challenged by the recent Obama election as well as progressive changes in recent generations……….
In this opinion white denial and that beginning witht the existence of white privilege and ending with its many secret organazations and attitudes/ways geared at maintaining and perserving those privileges and policies is challenge in ways that have not previously existed………
When one takes a real look at white privilege one sees where the battle grounds will be in the near future. Privileges are at risk and that the foundation of white racism in this nation…….Privileges!
January 4th, 2009 at 11:30 am -To answer the question, “Why no white voices?” In today’s age, white people are afraid to speak up.
I set aside “white is right’s” post as garbage. Any leader of this country will be guiding us all, and since the country’s birth it has been a melting pot.
I am a white democrat brought up in a very country setting. I went to a school where I could count the number of black kids on one hand. I don’t want to speak for them, but from every think I could tell they got along with everyone very well including myself.
It was not uncommon for them, nore anyone in mainstream society today to use the words “cracker” or “honky” in reference to a white person. Obviouslly the reciprocal would not be tolerated. I just watched a Chris Rock stand-up special the other day in which he used the words multiple times. I followed that with a George Lopez stand-up in which he did the same thing. There is a double standard in society that minorities can do or say things that the average white person can not.
I am not here to argue that white people should be aloud to use certain words, however if there are going to be rules, I believe both sides should play by the same ones.
The fact is whites are not on the same level with being able to speak their minds about the race issue. There is a double standard when it comes to talking about race that is made very evident, and it’s treading on thin ice when talking to a minority about it. Again I say I write this not about the vocabulary which anyone uses, but the thoughts that we both express.
In today’s society, political correctness is at an all time high. Rather than risking offending a minority and unrightfully being labled a racist, whites simply avoid the issue all together. It seems that minotrities have much more of an open slate in which to express their opinions.
On that note, I am curious to see the responces I recieve to this…
January 8th, 2009 at 4:31 am -Simple Desultory Diatribe
“The larger issue being that white America is threatened and challenged”
Being the proper English major, I’m going to call this a heap of crap.
It takes a bigot to make a generalization that utterly sweeping and back it up with nothing — instead of hard data.
In Like fashion I’m going to make another such sweeping generalization..
Obama has proven that a black man can rise to do anything he wants, and that means that those of the black population who play the race card as a reason why they were compelled to exist on welfare, are going to have to rethink it and find another reason.
That doesn’t exactly feel good does it. It’s not factual on many levels although it is true of SOME African Americans, it certainly isn’t true of all.
Some of the white idiots I know say the fact that Obama was elected means we have no discrimination any more and your comment makes as much sense as theirs does.
Poverty and discrimination affects ALL colors, BY all colors, and until Black people, white people and yellow people stop throwing stones and get their butts together on it.. its not going to change. I know as many black bigots as I do white ones, and you can deny it til hell freezes over but that isn’t going to change the fact that its true.
I know more wretchedly poor white people who live lives you can’t imagine, having worked and lived in West Virginia where Appalachia meant they had no water, no inside plumbing.. and not enough to eat.
They certainly were not your “oppressors” but you know, I don’t see the links to helping those kids here, as I do see the links to help Darfur on the “white” websites…
Were you there working for their rights and their health, to make sure the news grabbed it when one of them was raped or murdered? To make sure when the coal companies spilled poison into their water that you helped? do you really give a damn about it when a poor white kid dies from lack of proper nutrition right here in your own back yard?
If you don’t you should.. and those same white people who are oppressing you, they ARE working their butts off for black and white people alike..To make changes that matter for EVERYONE, not just their own little world. Granted perhaps sometimes for the wrong reasons, maybe for their own glory but you know what.. at the end of the day they are still helping..Get out and make a difference for everyone, don’t just concentrate your energies on your own issues, because poverty and death affects everyone, not just you.
I work with reporters and black women from Uganda.. Having asked for help from people of multiple races, I find that by and large, its white people who kick it up.. seeing blogs like.. “stuff white people do” linked here makes me howl with laughter.. because you certainly DO NOT see that hundreds of them work their ass off to better the lives of people both black and white. Do I care why they do it. NOpe.. let them buy their way into heaven or pat themselves on the back til its Christmas, but the end run is this.. their money and their time has gone to help a group of people that they are consistently accused of beating down, in small ways. I see them consistently denigrated on sites that are linked to this one.. in small insinuating ways, but do I see the positive things reflected on things like Stuff White people do.. absolutely not. In perfect media fashion, much as the white media is purported to downplays the murder of poor kids, or poor black kids.. so too does the Black, or African American community or media portray the white people as the oppressor, and may God or whatever deity you choose to name here, help you, if you put down on your blog something wonderful that the white people do to help your community..
I don’t see it, haven’t seen it and continue to see what the white folks do that makes them so monkey-like in your eyes. The small traits of five percent of white people.. the stereo typical ones. but let one be different and actively offer something positive and thats not news is it?
I do agree with the last poster..
Am I angry.. Darn right.. know why.. because I’ve worked my tail off to do what I can WHEN I can.. not just for African Americans, but for all Americans, and yet..there is no credit given for that, in any way shape or form. Regardless of what you do for the Black community, you’re that white lady. or that Indian lady.. and if perchance .. just let me look an African American in the eye and say.. You are just bone ass lazy, .. and it becomes a race issue. I know because it’s happened to me. In case you didn’t notice, I tend to be quite outspoken.
Quite frankly what disturbs me wholeheartedly is tripe thats tossed around about discrimination.It’s overused in cases like the one I mention above to the point that when its legitimate.. people ignore it. and we’re all guilty, black and white for allowing that kind of stupidity to go on and defending it.
Oh dear forgive him, he had a bad childhood.. Spare me..
Do I believe discrimination and prejudice exists.. You darn right I do.. do I think its a perfect excuse to rob a liquor store..or murder someone, or get involved in drugs?? You were downtrodden and poor your entire life and no one gave you a hand..
Sorry, no I don’t.
I was raised on 75 dollars a week. I was one damn poor native kid, got married at 17, had a baby at 19 and when my husband threw me out, I took my son to my mother, asked her to care for him and I lived in my car in a Pennsylvania winter time, while I finished nursing school and took showers at a truck stop. I graduated third in my class, I am STILL paying those student loans off, and when I got them my credit was trash..Was it hard.. you have no idea? Was I depressed and ready to quit? Over and OVER again. Did someone help me.. Nope, I did it alone.
and guess what.. I didn’t riot, I didn’t rob anyone and I didn’t piss my intellect away on drugs, or dive into the bottom of a bottle to drown my sorrow.
Don’t tell me you can’t do anything you want to if you want it badly enough, cus I”m not buying it..
There are one heck of a lot less Native Americans out there with degrees and diplomas than there are African Americans.. No one is giving us a hand up or a hand out, and so far as oppression, it doesn’t get any better than we’ve taken.
Traditionally, African Americans were used by the army to help track natives in many instances, so your people killed lots of mine.. multiple numbers of them won medals of honor for killing Native Americans..in THIS century, not the last one..
Do I think you owe me for that.. NOPE. Should I make you feel like the oppressor for it.. not if you’re not..
Bottom line.. I never kept slaves.. MY ancestors were a lot more beaten down than yours.. you were enslaved, we were killed, beaten, slaughtered by the thousands and our CULTURE killed so it could not survive..
I may empathize for what you went through, or your ancestors, as you can and should empathize for what my ancestors went through, and the life I had to lead.. but I certainly don’t expect you to pay for it, and I’m quite certain I’m not going to pay for what someone else did to you. Playing the “you’re white” , you’ve had it easy card, doesnt’ cut it with me.
I will give anyone a chance to do anything at all, Black, White, Chinese, Swedish etc etc.. and I hire people of all colors and from several countries to work with me every single day..IF they want to work !!! If they expect me to hand thing to them and not work for it…. whoops.. sorry bout your luck.
I am an equal opportunity b!tch. Your color won’t make me dislike you.. It takes reasons far closer to my heart than that, but if you are an ass, or a lazy fool, and expect me NOT to say it just because of the color of your skin, you’re up in your sleep. Holding my tongue because of your color.. whether for good or for ill, to neglect to be honest with you because your skin is different than mine.. To my way of thinking.. that’s a lost more discriminatory.
January 8th, 2009 at 10:23 pm -