OUR MANIFESTO
Let’s talk about race. Allaboutrace.com is the place on the web to talk about race in America. And by talk I mean share, discuss, argue, learn, teach, laugh and understand. This is a place for personal stories about how the vagaries of racial conflict affect each of us. Too often, race is the unaddressed “elephant in the room,” even at a time when our “melting pot” is spilling all over the stove.
I’ve always enjoyed talking about race even if getting the conversation started was uncomfortable. We comfortably talk about sexuality, gender issues, and money, but just mention a story in the paper with a racial component, particularly in a mixed race crowd, and everybody clinches. Many times I’ve avoided racial topics because I was afraid to discover that someone I like has racial views completely incompatible with mine. It hasn’t happened often, but it has. Like the time I found out one of my good friends at the time was “passing” because she thought it would help her career. Or the couple of times I chose to explain to a white friend why they could not use the “n-word” and had to strike it from their vocabulary. Look for posts about these encounters in the future.
As the creator and editor of this site, what I bring to the table is an amalgam of life experiences that although not completely atypical, are outside the lock step expectations one might have of a strong, black female, “boot strapper” like me. I’ve lived in projects and affluent neighborhoods. I’ve experienced poverty and abundance. I was fiercely bullied in early grade school, but thrived at Yale (the first person in my family to attend college). And I had life changing experiences traveling all around this country as a producer for ABC News. And throughout all of it, my foundation has been the world view and intellectual curiousity my mother and grandmother provided while I was growing up. Wherever we lived, we always had apartments filled with books, magazines and constant, candid discussions about issues of the day and their historical context.
As far as labels, I am an Independent with moderate political views. I am also a social liberal with strong opinions, always open to a good argument. I am deeply patriotic and passionate to create a place where we can come to grips with and talk through the hard stuff about race. Because race in America still influences how we see each other and limits how we empathize with each other and what we will do for one another.
America faces a tougher future. As I see it, we need EVERYONE in America who supports self-determination and the pursuit of happiness for all, pushing to make sure everyone has access to that dream. From my experience, many gang leaders for example, be they black, white or Latino, have similar and formidable skill sets. As a patriot I think what if those skills had been nurtured in the classroom and then applied to study, then to legitimate entrepreneurial pursuits or even national security efforts? We cannot afford to write off kids in Appalachia or South Central. We will need them all thinking and productive to help ensure our future.
as an italian american male i want to declare that for the past century, both i and my family have been systematically descriminated against. doesn’t this mean i should get have a national pity party? dont believe me?
my grandfather worked in new york cities iron smelters to earn the money for college. the only school that would accept an italian was villanova (catholic school) he had to go back to italy to go to medical school because no U.S. school would accept an italian. my grandfathers side of the family had a semi olive complexion and dark black hair. on trips to the south, they routinely had to ride on the back of the bus because they were mistaken for black.
my mother told me that in the wall street office where she met my father, the manager asked everyone if they minded him hiring an italian i.e. my dad. after graduation from college, i was flatly turned down in my first four job interviews. three of them were braizen enough to tell me “sorry, we are only hiring on E.O.E. and would love to hire you if you were a black or hispanic woman”. two said
“i’m sure your dad can get you a job at the grocery store” an assumption that all italians
that aren’t in the mob work as grocers or bakers.
i eventually became a professional musician. my family attended the first gig i had with a national act that was close to home. it was at a prestigerous jazz club with a predominantly black clientele. the band leader,who was an african american, complemented me on stage by saying to the audiece “look at casper go, yessir he dont sound white does he?” my family, who were very obviously there to see “casper”, were they upset? offended? enraged? of course not. some of us realize that freedom of speech and freedom of thought require a thick skin and a certain amount of common sense when determining what fights are justified. pushing back just to push back will create alot more ill will than its worth. words without malice are just words. it is our differences under a common flag that makes us american. my family has dealt with this fact for a century now. can yours?
Andrew, as always your post is enlightening. I am going to email you directly. I would like you to be a contributor on this site.
[...] First Time Readers [...]
Carmen – full disclosure for me: A white conservative evangelical Christian Republican. However, I grew up in a DC suburb that went from mostly white to mostly black to (now) all black over the course of the late 60’s – 70’s – 80’s. My final high school class was about 80% black, 20% white and other (latino / asian / etc). All this means is that I grew up with black people on my block, in my school, as my friends and co-workers all my life. While I won’t pretend I’ve never had racist thoughts, views or expressions, my personal opinion now after many many years is that it’s really all about class, not race. I grew up fairly poor in a lower class neighborhood, where white and black folks together were trying to earn their way into middle class respectability. Have I met lots of racist whites? Oh yeah. Do they make me sick just to hear their uninformed opinions? Oh yeah. But the same can be said of some of my black friends too. So let’s talk about race (or class) because we all DO have a lot to talk about. Thank you, Carmen for hosting such a site. May God continue to bless your efforts.
[...] OUR MANIFESTO [...]
[...] OUR MANIFESTO [...]
thinking and boxing yourself in as a racial group means you are defined and will define racially. every race does this and every race suffers from color affiliation—the domination just depends on the country. free yourself by freeing your thought and becoming colorblind. evil and greed is colorblind and it kills anything (yes including whites who hate the machine in america). let your love be colorblind to counter it. Christ bless
The trouble about the ‘dialog’ about race is it usually goes something like this:
White: I think that race-based quotas have to eventually end.
Black: You’re a racist.
White: OJ was obviouly guilty given the DNA evidence.
Black: You’re a racist.
White: The DC school system has had a black superintendant for years, and a majority of its school principles are black; further, it has a very high percentage of black teachers and spends upwards of $15,000 per pupil per year. Yet it is among the worst performing districts in the country. Something has to change.
Black: It because of racism, and, btw, you’re a racist.
White: I think what Bill Cosby says about blacks and education makes a lot of sense.
Black: He’s an Uncle Tom Oreo and you’re a racist.
White: Given the dirty tricks Obama pulled to get his State Senate seat and win the US Senate seat, and given his woeful lack of any relavent experience, if he were white, we’d all be laughing at the idea of him being president.
Black: You’re a racist, Nazi, Hitler.
Black: Let’s have a dialog about race.
White: Gee, I’m kinda busy right now; I’ll get back to you next week.
Greetings pteranodon, welcome to the conversation. You know what? We feel EXACTLY the same way…except in reverse. Often when I try to engage in a fully dimensional dialog about race some white person shows up vomiting tired generalizations, non-specific examples or lamely imagined fantasy exchanges.
Clearly, we are both frustrated with that status quo.
So instead,what constructive suggestions do you offer? I would like to hear them and this is a place to share them. And as for me, you’ll find many of my ideas sprinkled throughout these pages.
Well, I don’t want to waste your time with my tired generalizations, non-specific examples, and lame fantasies. And I surely do not want to vomit on you.
Do you really wonder why whites avoid talking about race with blacks after a comment like that?
And yours was any less insulting, pteranodon?
Fearless conversation happens on both sides of the keyboard here.
Still you are welcome here. And I’ll ask you again,what constructive suggestions do you offer? I would like to hear them. You are invited to participate in the discussion we are having on this site and have been having for more than a year now.
My post was constructive; it layed out in a brief form the kind of ‘dialog’ whites hear over and over. You make a logical argument based in documentable facts. You get back that you are a racist or what you are saying is hate speech. The purpose of this name calling is to close off any debate.
Contrast that to the examples you gave. Did the boorish whites you speak of move to keep you from speaking? Did they call you an offensive name or suggest that you are inherently mean spirited? Probably not. You considered them ignorant or maybe insulting. Regarless of ignorance, insensitivity, or irrational thought, dialog means that you consider what they say and respect that they have a right to their opinions.
Finally, when I hear blacks say we need to have a dialog on race, I know that I am going to get a lecture on how all my opinions are wrong, that white people are the cause immense oppression, and that nothing will change until whites admit all these crimes and write reparation checks. Don’t think so? Go see Ms. Secours essays. From the little I have read here, I get the feeling that yor attitudes are no differenct than hers.
As a white person who was quite optimistic about race relations when the Civil Rights Act was passed in 1964, I have to say that I have not just become disillustioned, but apathetic. When I am told that the only way for there ever to be equality in the US is for white grade school children to be indoctrinated into a state of self-hatred, I draw the line.
Good luck with your website.
I accept that the intent of your comment was to be constructive, pteranodon. Thank you for reading.
Interesting site Carmen. I agree that America needs to have an honest dialog on race. We are shaped in this country by the history of race relations, past and present. To assume that the conversation will be easy is unrealistic, to assume that everyone will agree, also unrealistic. In my work life (social work field)I was part of an executive committee. When discussions of diversity training would arise, my question was, “will the staff be uncomfortable” and I would be assured that this was a {good training} and we would not be made to feel uncomfortable….my response,”then it will not be of any value. I felt that if you are going to provide training on a subject this sensitive, it needs to presented from truth and with a facilator prepared to handle whatever came up. To have this discussion people are going to be uncomfortable. When you talk about something that is so weighted down in pain, anger and fear you get a topic that people tiptoe around. In the U.S., race has always been the elephant in the room wearing lip stick and a lamp shade.
I find pteranodon statement irratating. (“When I am told that the only way for there ever to be equality in the US is for white grade school children to be indoctrinated into a state of self-hatred, I draw the line.”) Don’t draw the line there, demand that NO CHILD in the U.S. should be indoctrinated into a state of self-hatred, DRAW THE LINE THERE. Draw the line that states, NO ONE should be demoralize, deminished, marginalized etc….based on something as trival as the color of their skin. I find it to be true arrogance when folks who have limited personal experience define my life experience as a Black person and become offended if I am angry or hurt. Harriet Tubman said “aint I a woman” ….well “ain’t I a human being” with the right to express my feeling. If my Dad were alive he would say yes to pternodon, “white folks are the reason for my oppression.” Contractor, electrician, painter with no license because he was Black and unable to join the Unions. There are many stories like this in many Black families. Stories that don’t always reference how wonderful it was to be Black in America. I have my own, I am a child of the 50’s. Do you know what it’s like to travel cross country to California with your Black grandmother? Do I think the state of race relations in this country rest soley on the shoulders of White America, no! Do I think that White America has to be accountable, yes! Does this mean reparation, hell no, taxes would eat that up. However, just as there is drive to never forget the horrors of the holocaust, we should never forget the horrors of slavery. When we right the history books could it be more inclusive of all the Americans that built this country, not just the special few that are mentioned to appease the black folk. When we create new communities can they be inclusive vs. exclusive. When we enforce the laws of the land can we work from the same book,chapter,page, and not use the special subchapters that are based on gender, race, social-economic status. When equality is part of the discussion can it be equality for all. Let’s have a dialog..
Carmen thank you for allowing me to rant……
Excuse typos and grammer errors.
BrownBaby, thank you for your thoughtful post. We have a lot of work to do and voices like yours are essential if bridges are to be built.
Brown-Baby, what you really mean is that diversity training isn’t any good unless white people are made to be uncomfortable. Making black people (or any other ethnic group) uncomfortable is an actionable offense these days. So, the ‘dialog’ only goes one way. The same is true in this website where black commentators are allowed to use disparaging remarks and name-calling on white commentators, but not the reverse. Race ‘dialog’ in this country is really a race monologue with whites now just smilin’ and noddin’ ’til the conversation (diatribe) ends.
Kind of like blacks used to do in the Jim Crow days.
White, black, brown and gold people sometimes call names on this site. Read the threads, get your facts straight. Why do you feel the need to continue playing the “v-i-c-t-i-m” – a role you claim to abhor? If you are sure this arena is so biased, what is your goal in participating here?
Let’s not play games pteranodon, I am very clear on what I mean when I speak. Diversity addresses more than just the issues of race. Gender, age, disabiities, GLBT, religion, to name a few. Should {all} people in the room be uncomfortable, hell yes!!! These are subjects that impact how we stand in the world. We must learn how to have dialogues about diversity,equality and multiculturalism. How do we grow from simple tolerance of one another to embracing and celebrating our differances. How do we grow into the potential of a truly global world with out these dialogues. We don’t. I prefer uncomfortable vs. fearful. Fear has given us many wars, the Holocaust, slavery, hate crimes and other atrocities. So if you want to sit in the room simply “noddin your head and smilin”, instead of having a voice, your choice. You see, I think you walk in a very fearful place, which makes you dangerous. You see the battles that are fought for equality, equity, tolerance, and freedoms take place first in our heads and among our personal views and our private attitudes and thoughts. Peranodon, I know where I stand in the world. Where do you stand??
Many apologies for not reponding sooner, but, as it turns out, I live in Iowa and have been spending my spare time filling sandbags.
First, my point is always that there is no ability for whites to engage in dialog about race with non-whites, because as soon as a white person expresses an opinion that is not to the listener’s liking, someone will move to shut the white person up. Dialog only goes one way. If any non-white is insulted, offended, made uncomfortable, or just plan disagrees with what the white person says, the non-white has many avenues to end debate without addressing the issues.
Brown Baby; suppose a white person in one of your diversity meetings expressed the opinion that he felt that affirmative action was counter productive because it encouraged blacks to shirk the real hard work needed to get ahead–in school, in college, and in the workplace–leaving them unprepared to lead as managers. Would you discuss this very uncomfortable idea in a civilized way, or would those opposed to it gang up and pile on with name-calling and threats? Would you consider discussing it? Or would you reject it out of hand?
pteranodon … as a fellow white guy may I ask you to ask yourself what the hell you are so damn angry about that you seek the conflict?… I have seen folks regardless of their race rise to the apex of the social and financial ladders as well as dive to the depths of the gutter… To a certain extent I share your views on the verbal double standard BUT… I also understand the hows and whys of history that have made it so… trust me, chastising an audience of upwardly mobile, successful black folks isn’t gonna score any points, nor will it make white folks look unquestionably erudite… there are some things that we are not going to see eye to eye on… resign yourself to that and in the words of the illustrious marion barry, “get over it!”. if any of you saw the
way Carmen and I go back and forth off site… you would think the hatfields and mccoys were best buddies… we just agree to disagree and try not to offend one another…
and thats how the bridges are gonna be built…
and by the way.. kudos on the dignity with which your community has been handling a tragedy … you make me proud to be an American.. I wish you luck and dry weather!
We’ve been through this before, in 1993. Didn’t expect it again so soon, but, that’s weather in the midwest. In both cases, Iowa had disaster plans in place long before the disaster happened, so shelters were already identified, stocked, and provisioned before it happened. Our cities also have their Civil Defence organizations prepped and ready. The mayors of the towns are perhaps the unsung heros. These men and women are for the most part ordinary Joes (Joettes?) who at some point wanted to ensure good government in their home towns. They aren’t rock stars or media darlings but they aren’t about to embarrass themselves and their towns by standing on a soap box yelling “Where’s FEMA? Where’s Bush?”. They accept that God helps those who help themselves and so they roll up their sleaves and lead by example. Our governors (Republican Terry Branstad in 93 and Democrat Chet Culver in 08) accepted that, while no one can control the weather, how we respond to it is up to us–us here in Iowa. If there’s a basement to clean out, we’re going to have to do it, it’s our basement. It isn’t the job of Federal bureaucrats or out-of-state volunuteers to do it for us. FEMA’s best job is to get grants and loans into the hands of the affected, but it is our job to take care of our community. Too bad not every state is like Iowa.
Reparations will enable us to have in depth discussions on race. You are right, Carmen D, we need to have these discussions if we are to ever see “A More Perfect Union.” And, it is our duty as Americans to continue the process started by the Founders of our Country…to buld upon this ideal that is a Republican Democratic form of government.
Come and Get Your Reparations!
Pternadon it was expected in my family of orgin that hard work, and education, would get you through the door, but you had to be thrice as good to make it to the top. This was modeled and expected of us. My sisters and I were never taught that goverment would take care of us.
We were taught to be responsible for ourselves. Affirmative action was not something our parents presented us with as the magic carpet to an easy life.
Pternadon I have been in the minority my entire work life. I don’t think you grasp the concept of having “a voice”. It does not have to be laced with name calling, threats or carry a less then subtle slur against a group of people.
The “agency” sponsored diversity meeting were directed to a staff of just under 140 people with about 30 of those being Black. At the management level I was one of 2 Black Americans. At the State level, I was one of 2 Blacks in the Boardroom at the Governor’s Council, I was one of 5. If affirmative action came up in the manner that you presented it, most assuredly, there would have been a “civilized” conversation.
Pternadon, you remind me of a child that has been told the stove is hot, don’t touch and does it anyway and gets burned.
fcg#p I appreciate your statement ” to agree to disagree and not offend one another”.
Baby Brown, you’re gonna have to connect the dots for me. Are you accusing me of threatening someone? Is your “hot stove” comment just a another way of telling me to shut up? I guess your slurs are too subtle for me.
Carmen,
I have enjoyed your responses to Pteranodon and wish that everyone would have this kind open mind. Unfortunately it appears that your mind may not be as open as you would like us all to believe. Your involvement with “Blogging While Brown” is an example of racial exclusion that a white group would be lambasted if they attempted. Would you sit by quietly if a group of bloggers wanted to set up a symposium call “Writing While White”?
I have to agree with Pteranodon in that it is difficult for a white person to express any dissenting opinions without being quickly labeled as racist. Although I would have to say that he/she does appear to be a little agressive in the posts. But don’t discount everthing posted as it shows the confusion and frustration that many white people have when trying to discuss complex issues while not offending any minority group.
I look forward to a time when we can see each other as fellow human beings instead of a color but I fear that will never happen in my lifetime.
First of all great site and great concept. I found your site while doing research on the subject for a sociological study I’m conducting. I’ve been reading through the comments posted by some of the comments and as typical of many sites on the subject, most serious discussions seem to attract a certain type of individual who in spite of access to computers, books and information which could have helped them to evolve their racist thinking, they predictably resist the simple step of actually trying to understand that for which they appear to enjoy speaking much about. Which is a lot different from someone who’s interested in engaging in a meaningful dialog.
Sure, race can be a difficult subject to talk about but it doesn’t have to be impossible if the conversation(s) is conducted correctly in the proper context. There are several things which make this task challenging in an online format.
1. There is something about putting people behind computers that brings out the worse (most candid) responses. This is a double-edge-sword for what should be obvious reasons.
2. You never know who you are dealing with: intelligence on known and operating hate groups and their racist sympathizers suggest that some of the members are technically savvy and quite active. These members have been known to use back channels to communicate with one another so that they can coordinate their efforts to engage in a kind of terror / propaganda campaign that becomes increasingly evident in the comment sections of news worthy stories which might have a racial twist to them or sites that have a similar theme. These operations appear to be geared towards three aims:
a) Trolling/Trashing: Drag the conversation down to a point as to discourage reasonable people from participating.
b) Create the illusion of mass agreement and support.
c) Appeal to weak-minded individuals as to grow their ranks.
In other words, a classic psyops.
3. Having online discussions on difficult subjects such as race can be about as effective as herding cats for the aforementioned reasons. I think that just like in face-to-face moderated discussions about race their has to be ground rules and those ground rules are their not as limits to free expression as much as they are there to protect the integrity and context of the conversation. Therefore, when an obvious racist shows up with both guns blasting in self-righteous indignation with browbeating point-of-views this is about as inappropriate as a man showing up to ” awomens dealing with the pain and stigma of sexual assault meeting.” whose only contribution to the conversation is not listening and understanding, or questions that show a genuine interest in self-enlightenment but rather whining and belly-aching like a two year old.
The complaints / distractions / tactics can usually be synthesized into the following classic forms:
a) Race baiting: The deliberate use of racially coded language specifically planted as to insult those present.
b) Scholarly sounding but highly suspect counter-arguments (distractions) which are completely inappropriate to the context of the conversation and are basically intended to derail the conversation. e.g. The man that shows up to the a “women’s dealing with the pain and stigma of sexual assault meeting” and makes comments such as:
“boohoo! do men get a national pity party for being abused?”
“I’m sick and tired of whining and complaining about being abused.”
“You women are all sexist because if you wanted to have this discussion you would acknowledge that men can be sexually assaulted by women. The fact that you don’t want to address this proves that your motivations are really about man bashing.”
“I am extremely offended that the only thing you women want to talk about is being abused by men when the opposite also happens.”
c) hyper-sensitivity / confirmation bias: After going on a virtual rampage of intentionally condescending, disparaging and nasty comments. The propagandist switches into “victim mode” with cries of unfairness, censorship and self-righteous indignation at the close mindedness of those who dared to disagree or challenge his assertions. This is primary an attempt to derail / distract and ultimately frustrate those who would offer a direct challenge to his assertions. Rather than having the depths of his or her stupidity explored. The conversation veers off into another direction. When others become equally hostile and condescending then our victim plays the see “this is why these conversations don’t work card.” or “I knew that you were not serious about having this discussion.” All of this is intended to distract from the fact the person making these charges was not serious.
Having a Constructive Conversation on Race:
It is entirely possible for people who have different racial backgrounds to have candid and constructive conversations about race. I would add that it is done all of the time. When the following is true:
1. The groups engaging in such conversations are socially competent. Socially competent individuals be they white or black or other have problems talking about race because they understand that fundamentally race is a mask for
class. This common understanding fosters an environment for free and open exchange that is typically void of the pitfalls present when socially incompetent individuals try to have the same conversations. This is primarily because everyone understands the purpose and function of race. And race and racism in these circles is largely seen for what it is, a form of stupidity.
2. The groups engaging in such conversations are honestly engaged in self-enlightenment. Understanding the purpose and function of race in a racist society requires personal determination and intellectual curiosity. When individuals have these two traits they will a) acknowledge ignorance b) be open to consuming information that helps resolve this ignorance. c) Become acutely aware of how race influences not only their behavior but that of their friends and loved ones.
Here’s the central reason why race is a difficult subject to talk about:
Culture Shock: (They don’t know that they don’t know) This is true for both whites, blacks and other people but in different and interesting ways. For example: It is well understood that most non-blacks have a very romanticized understanding of history and society and the righteousness of whiteness which is the equivalent of being normal. They’ve been spoon-fed this diet from the moment they were born. They have also been spoon-fed a standard package of lies, distortions and half-truths about non-whites by people they trust and respect. Therefore, it should come as no surprise that these people will have a particularly negative reaction and start spewing garbage they’ve been stuffed with since they’ve been born when presented with information that appears to desecrate the lies they hold as true and self-evident. Furthermore, they will go to great lengths to remain ignorant because to remain ignorant is better than feeling guilty. Some whites know its all a scam and con but they play along out of self interest which is only human.
For non-whites who’ve been faced with what amounts to a multi-generational hate crime, they have internalized all of the hatred and anger and it has manifested itself in predictable and well understood ways such as; the need to overcompensate which is directly related to a since of low-self-esteem. The need to assert power (common among the powerless), and a depressed since of motivation a (what’s the point attitude.) Finally, having been subjected to a lifetime of propaganda that basically says whites = good and blacks = bad. It should come as no surprise that some of these people might have a particularly hostile and equally dismissive reaction to the customs, institutions and people of the dominant society even if doing so leads to their own demise.
Therefore, putting two groups of people together who come from opposite ends of a spectrum, who’s realities are contextually valid. But their positions are at odds with one another for the purpose of reconciling the barrier that exists between them is like throwing water in hot grease and not expecting a mess.
Well, thank you Wisdom (and props to Carmen in general)!
I am now proud to be a supporter of the site and the continuing improvement of all our lives through this necessary conversation. Funny enough, contrary to some who seem to feel distrustful or even apathetic about this national conversation, as a child of a civil rights activist, I’m still perfectly happy to be in the Movement
This is my country and I’m determined to keep going towards it’s betterment. Thank you Carmen, I’ll be reading along.
I’ve just read the entire thread above (well, not every single word, but scanned very carefully and read most all through) and am just wondering if it all ended on Sept 1st or what? I mostly wanted to give accolades to Wisdom for having the wherewithal to express so very clearly a perspective that I very much share. I was formulating my thoughts to post here when I got to his/her post so all I will say is that I don’t think there is any substitute for in-person communication when it comes to such deep and volatile topics. Not that I think this site should not go on and thrive and be well-read, just that I think the only way humans actually change their opinions is through real-life experience, real-life relationships with other people. As Wisdom said, “they don’t know what they don’t know.” I think that says it all. Just like the hot stove analogy, children only really learn by experience, hopefully they don’t get irreversibly injured in the process. Just for full disclosure, I am a white (both my parents were born in Europe so I am pretty sure I can’t even go back to find hidden African ancestry, unless you count going back into pre-history), grew up in NYC during the 50s & 60s, went to an integrated, “progressive” school, became joined by marriage with people of color (Puerto Rican) and currently work in an primarily African-American inner-city, environment where I am the minority and am learning day by day about the “culture-shock” aspect of bridging the divide between “races” (a term that has no scientific basis whatsoever, as Wisdom also points out). So I will continue to read here and to relish the opportunities in my own life to continue to grow as a human being and to make my actions be in support of human well being and dignity for all. Love hearing you, Carmen, on NPR, keep up the great work!
Hey SomaPsyche, thank you for your thoughtful comments and your support. I realize that you are exactly right about the limits of moving the needle in race relations through written exchange. My next effort will be a blogtalkradio show launching in the next couple months and eventually in person workshops and presentations. When the radio show gets up and running, I hope you will call in and share your observations and opinions!
My biggest frustration is that white people will not even entertain the idea that public and business policies contribute to racism. And it doesn’t help, although I don’t think that it would matter, that many black people who talk about “the man” or the “system” cannot give specific examples. These are specific examples of institutional racism that white people don’t care about discussing:
The denial of low interest FHA mortgage loans to black veterans returning from WWII
The tearing down of black business districts when constructing the interstate highway system
The many acts of the real estate industry, including, “block-busting”, and steering to certain neighborhoods
The refusal of state governments to alter the funding system of public schools so that something other than local property taxes pays for them
The fact that property in black neighborhoods is assessed a lower value in the first place
The decision of businesses to not locate in black areas, even when it is proven they can be profitable (Example: a grocery store used to be up the street from where I live. The owner relocated, not because the store was losing money, but because in his/her greed, he/she wanted to open a “superstore” in a white neighborhood that already has five or six such stores, including more than one from the same chain)
The emphasis on big-city governments in enticing businesses and white suburbanites to come back downtown, and spending money on downtown to the detriment of the neighborhoods
Most black people cannot adequately explain how all of these things negatively affect black people and create “ghettoes,” and most white people don’t want to hear these explanations when someone *does* make them.
Race is social, not biological, but that doesn’t mean race isn’t real. When people make stuff up, that stuff becomes just as real as if it had always existed. But white people don’t want to hear about the fact that it goes beyond individual interactions, it didn’t end with the abolition of slavery or Jim Crow, and it didn’t end with civil rights. They won’t even listen to white people like Peggy McIntosh, who has spent years talking about “white privilege” and the “invisible knapsack.”
Until white people are willing to have a discussion on the macro-level causes of continuing racism, it is pointless to have a dialogue on race.
Another thing that frustrates me is that there is a small – too small in my opinion – segment of the black community that says the solution to racism is for black people to accept that whites want nothing to do with them and to begin spending their money with black businesses and to place their children in all-black schools and teach the children black history and African culture.
While it makes sense for people who believe in integration to disagree with this idea, what pisses me off is that some of the same white people who deny the continued existence of racial discrimination and don’t want to have serious racial dialogue have the nerve to call “racist” black people who basically say : “We accept that you want nothing to do with us, so we are going to go over here and do our own thing, so leave us alone while we teach our own children and do business with one another.”
So there are people who at the same time want to avoid discussing racism but also want to prevent black people from self-education and economic self-determination.
clarification:
It doesn’t frustrate me that there are black people who want to reclaim black control of black dollars and the education of black children, it frustrates me that there are white people who couldn’t care less about the well-being of blacks who try to paint these black people as racist.
This is truly amazing – Anyone that says we don’t speak enough about Race in America, in my estimation, is sadly mistaken. It is not a day that goes by that I don’t hear about some topic and how it relates to its racial aspect. What more is there to say about race, really? White America is getting Fed up with what they view as excuses and a lack of coeherency within the black community. Most Whites feel, and rightfully so, that they have played no part in past discriminatory practices and/or policies and frankly they don’t even understand why Blacks always seem to tout the mantra of ‘victimization and the “Woe is We” complex, especially in the Face of black-on-black crime, the multi-million dollar black athletes that have been caught up in the justice system all too often, out-of wed lock births, high drop out rates, the drug culture (the list can get pretty long). A lot of the Black argument is starting to ring hollow and starting to fall on death ears when filtered through those other than Blacks. What are we going to discuss – WE’VE BEEN WRONGED. How many times and ways can that be said. What do we honestly expect to gain from groaning and moaning, having meetings and panels? Of course we have some gripes, but let us not pretend that the world revolves around us and fool ourselves into believing that we are the torch bearers for truth and honest debate. One would imagine that America has absolutely nothing to offer a Black person except heartbreak. Let us be honest and not fail to realize that there are millions of successful Black folk who do not feel victimized. It is mind-boggling to me that those politicians at the highest level of government are fanning the flames, touting discrimination and how difficult it is to get ahead (How incoherent and disingenous does that appear on its face) Anyway – The race argument is not dead and seemingly will never end, but I sincerely hope it does not continue being used as a crutch.
[...] of exploding them. We either fume silently or bully with accusation. That is why I created this All About Race site two years ago, and why I am moving into providing services that help people talk about race [...]
Excellent project, Carmen. Very enlightening and oddly addictive.
Sometimes I wonder what the world would be like if Africans had migrated to America by choice, rather than by bondage. Dwelling on that too long leads to a whole re-write of US history. No civil war, a huge drag on the industrial and agricultural advances during the 19th and 20th century…etc
In a strictly historical sense, slavery was one of the most important engines in the construction of the country as we know it now. Generations later we all are provided with the residual fruit of their forced labor.
An unfortunate scar left from the previous generations is our perceptions of each other based on a turbulent past. My dream is that a scar that took 400 years to create will not take 400 years to mend.
Hey Matt! Really wonderful to see you here! Thank you for that thoughtful comment and glad to know you find the site addictive. Yes! I hope you will hang around, speak up and make sure to check out Andrew Padula’s posts – under the heading ‘The Topsoil’. Old home week, right??
I’m glad to have found this forum because I’ve been thinking about race quite a bit lately and it is not easy to find a forum in which to explore race. The question for me really begins with “what is race?” Is it ancestry, presence or lack of melanin? A culture? A social construct? What makes someone black or white in America? I have an idea of what that means, what a black or white person looks like, but it it really that? Just what they look like?
I grew up in rural Minnesota where I never met anyone with significantly more melanin than myself. When I went to college I met people from all over the world, many of whom had much more melanin than I did. One of the first people I became friends with was Greg, his parents were diplomats, he had lived all over the world, gone to the best private schools, spoke better english, was more well groomed and much more well dressed, and had much more money than I did. He also had more melanin than me and as far as I can tell, that was the only thing that made him black and me white.
For a time my children were in private school and we became friends with one of the couples who also had children there. He was an executive at a large company and had just slightly more melanin than myself, not really noticeable. His children had blonde hair and blue eyes and were very melanin deficient like myself, yet they claimed their children were black, I believe they had one black great-grand parent. They did this so the children could benefit from affimative action, or so they said. An interesting twist from 50 years ago where a black ancestor may have been something to keep hidden out of shame.
May people who are melanin deficent will tell you that they like black people but don’t like poor blacks, and they will sometimes use derogatory terms for poor, uneducated blacks. I imagine this is because they have gone to school, played on sports teams, worked with or served in the military with people who had more melanin than they do and found those people to be as pleasant and hard working as they are and someone they could befriend. Why do they make this distinction? Is it a cultural or a class distinction? Where do they get their ideas about poor, uneducated blacks? Is this a sign of gradual change in attitudes? What keeps poor blacks poor and uneducated when other groups seem able to get ahead easier. Is it really just a reaction to melanin, asians and hispanics typically have less than blacks? Is it cultural since asian and hispanic cultures are more closely aligned to european culture? Why does poor black culture try so hard to seperate itself from white culture? Why is the face of poverty black when there are more poor whites that poor blacks in this country? Is racism the only reason poor uneducated blacks stay locked in a cycle of poverty? Could there be other factors?
My best friend currently is a poor, uneducated man with more melanin than myself. He is extremely bright and can beat me in chess even when he takes his queen, a rook and a bishop off at the start of the game. My sense is that being raised by addicts and having fallen into addiction himself played a much larger role in his remaining poor and uneducated than racism. I might be wrong in that assesment, certainly racism has affected his life, but I feel that addiction was more harmful.
For awhile I ran a hip-hop club which was a hang out for gansta’ types, some melanin deficient, some not. I can say with a good deal of certainty that middle class folks black or white would have been equally uncomfortable with all the patrons of the club without regard to their melanin but based on their social skills and the violent, tough guy persona they fostered. After being exposed to the music for awhile it occured to me that the values of main stream hip hop were those of suburban white America: money, displays of wealth and power, aquisitivness. Hip hop music has taken those values and distorted them into a crack crazed caricature, but still the same basic system. I imagine this may be why the music is so popular with white suburban kids and is the dominant popular music of the day. If music produced by people with plenty of melanin is the dominant popular music, what does that say about acceptance of those people and that culture? Blacks are okay as long as they are entertainers or sports figures but not in positions of power? I don’t know. But it seems that if were have had two secretaries of state with enough melanin to pass as black and a president who also can pass as black, doesn’t it indicate that the bias against melanin is lessening?
I find this question of what makes someone black or white extremely complex and difficult to understand and I am looking for any insight others might have into this question.
We all should know that diversity makes for a rich tapestry, and we must understand that all the threads of the tapestry are equal in value no matter what their color.
-Maya Angelou
@ BSweet -
“All animals are equal. But some animals are more equal than others.” – George Orwell
I am a white man who has been in a relationship with a black woman for 16 years. It has most certainly changed my perspective on race in a way that most white folks who have never experienced racism could never understand. I grew up in a very white, very segregated area. I had, have, many racist friends. Some have no idea they are racist, some don't care most have no idea the damage it causes to them, their children or their communities. I try to educate them through word and deed. Sometimes I think it helps, sometimes not. They grew up that way, they don't know better, or don't care. Anyway, this is important to me and should be important to us all. Thank you for your efforts.
I am a white man who has been in a relationship with a black woman for 16 years. It has most certainly changed my perspective on race in a way that most white folks who have never experienced racism could never understand. I grew up in a very white, very segregated area. I had, have, many racist friends. Some have no idea they are racist, some don't care most have no idea the damage it causes to them, their children or their communities. I try to educate them through word and deed. Sometimes I think it helps, sometimes not. They grew up that way, they don't know better, or don't care. Anyway, this is important to me and should be important to us all. Thank you for your efforts.
Hello Carmen, Just came across this site today and what a discovery it is..An excellent website, with so much of food for thought, to learn and share..This is an excellent resource for an expat like me, since I also run my own expat blog!! Will keep coming bck here for more..
Let me start by saying that I am a proud Black man in my early 40's. I feel as if I have a preoccupation with race issues for the very reason this website exist. While issues surrounding race effect every ethinicity, the overwhelming problems are simply black and white. I feel as if race needs to be discussed in vivid historical terms in this society. In doing so it need be clearly understood that a very,very very uncomfortable feeling/reality may result for blacks and definitely for whites. This discomfort must occur much like the pains of labor occur moments before a new life is brought forth. I propose simply the following:
Resolve that all humans are worthy of respect.
This is so extremely key. It is my contention that the very root of racism in this country stems from the age old notion that Blacks are sub-human , 3/5ths of a human being etc. Does the average white person actively think that? Who's to say. But the dismissive, vile rhetoric and attitudes towards in my mind is an indication that these thoughts still prevail.
It may be naive but if we start here , we can then earnestly begin to debate issues toward a solution that benefits us all in the long run and not just scoring points for our side.
Interesting concept you have here. I want to throw in my 2 cents- So here is all my dirty laudry.. I'm a 35 year old white woman, married for 14 years to a black man. We have the two most beautiful (I know I'm biased!) bi-racial little girls you will ever see- ages 11 years and 20 months, Our 11 year old has been homeschooled for the past 4 years. My husband and I both attended college- but never finished. We live in South Louisiana where we have a house, 2 cars and bills to pay. I don't care about politics, I do go to church, I have issues with the public school system- I'm a wife, mother, daughter, sister, friend, christian- and I guess, stemming from at least one post on this site- one of those cunning white women who opened my bag of tricks…. Really? To get my husbad to marry me? What would be the point?
I actually found this site by googling Black Voices. I agree with others who say we should have a “White voices” Blog. Lol- Ok not really, but it does facinate me that in this day and age- a time when I'm trying to teach my daughters that they are people- who in this great country can grow up and do whatever they want- that race, espically the issues between blacks and whites, are still an issue. And that there are sites like black voices because everything else is considered to be a white voice. So where do my kids fit in? Do they really have to choose?
I agree that we do need to have a nice little talk about race. Unfortunetly starting that conversation usually fires up hate- from people of all races, who are uninformed and some who just don't care. You said above that you have sometimes avoided race conversations because you were unsure of how someone felt on the issue- afraid that they would feel differently that you. I think lots of people feel this way, so they say nothing- and the issue remains.
But I think the issue is more than just not talking about it- because quite frankly- some people talk to much. With so many self appointed race experts out there filling the air with what they think the “other” race needs to do to make things better, most people don't stop to listen why what we do or say hurts someone else. Sterotypes have been made and it's hard to change someone's perception of the world. BUT- if we would actually stop and listen to each other maybe more of us would realize that people are just people. We're shouldn't be defined by race, religion, education or any other number of adjectives you can put on someone- but by who they are. Period.
Unfortunelty, not everyone is a good person. Some people hate, but most of these people persue other sins as well- they don't just hate. But the Bible tells us that we should love even these people. Spreading hate- even if it's about the hater- only causes more hate, more misinformation, and an even longer time before my girls can live in a coutry where they just are- and not feel like they have to choose sides.
So I'm not black- that means, no I don't know what it's like to grow up black or be black in “this” world. BUT I am a woman, I grew up poor and I've been hated on more than one occassion for loving my husband. Nobody's life is perfect and most people's lives are not easy. While the set backs in my life may not have been because I'm black, they are still set backs. Some may say “It's not the same thing.” Well, no I guess it's not the same thing. But if I don't get a job because I'm a woman and the man next to me doesn't get the same job because he's black- does that negate the way I feel? NO! I have just as much of a reason to be upset!
People have ideas based on sterotypes our society has created. We as a people need to break these sterotypes so we can address each other in a human way- not in a way society has taught us is ok. I really think some of it has nothing to do with race, but more with people in general being insensitive to the feelings of others. Sometimes the person on the opposite end percieves it as racism.
I also think that certain parts of society have given off the illusion that certain thigs are ok- even though they may hurt others. You said above that you had to teach a friend why they had to strike the n word from their vocabulary. Was is because that friend was white or just because the word is offensive? It should (I hope it was) the latter. But not everybody thinks that way. Our kids hear it in music and in movies- and not always in a derrogatory use. Is a 9 year old kid really supposed to just know that that rapper saying it is ok because he's black? I don't think so. Words like this, and there are plenty of others used towards other races, should ALL be considered bad words by all races. It shouldn't be ok for any one to use the N word- black or white. It's definetly a bad word in our house, right along with fat, ugly, stupid and any other word that can be used to hurt someone.
Maybe I'm niave and live in my on little world- but really it's only when I turn on the news or get on the internet that race seems to be at the forfront of my life. (Except with the occassional comment from my Mother I law- a whole different issue!) I'm married to a black man, my kids are bi-racial- and if people are looking at me funny or making comments as I walk by, I don't notice! Why? Because I choose not to. This is my life. If I spend it worrying about what the person next to me thinks, what kind of life do I have. At the same time, I try to use the resources I have to chage MY world. I can't change the entire world, but I can make a difference in my part of it. I will talk to anyone who will listen and tell them my views on race. I will ansewer their questions about being in an interracial marriage, I try to educate- but I'm nice while I do it.
And I completly agree with this- It is the kids of today- no matter where they are beig raised- that will change things. Any adult who is the least bit concerned with race relations, breakig sterotypes or bringing the nation together as one people- needs to get off their soapbox and actually out into the community, into to schools ad aroud the kids if you really wat to make a difference. A child could have every opportuity in the world to go to college and make something of themselves (race not an issue) BUT if they don't know about the opportunities or the help available- how do we expect them to succeed? In the real world- Not all parents are good people (or good parents), not all teachers really care and ot all schools are good for our kids. There is always a way to help the children in your community. These kids are our future, they are the change.
My oldest daughter never even heard anyone called “black” or “white” until she went off to school. People were peach and brown to her and she was “peachish-brown.”- and this she concluded all on her own with no input from my husband and I. When she started school and heard someone call me white- she questioned why and said “Mommy your not white, snow is white.” And she was right. It's the adults in the world that create labels and teach them to our kids. It's the adults in the world that have race issues- have you ever been in a kindergarten class? The kids play with everybody- they don't care. Adults teach kids to become haters. If we really want to stop it, we have step up and be a positive influence in the lives of kids who may not be gettig a positive ifluence at home.
I am an African-American who lives overseas.I've lived overseas 20 years and know other African-Americans here.I consider myself to be a social liberal,but I do not walk in lock step with anyone or any movement and prefer to call myself independant
What I am and have always been is a proud African woman who is more comfortable wearing African clothes and my hair in braids or natural.I have found over the years that although I love Black people and want to be around them there are none that I've met here that are truely proud to be Black.Many of them seem to be at war with themselves and the only Black people they relate to are the educated,white minded Blacks who are quick to put down another Black in front of the white people to prove how acceptable they are.I have given up on these self hating Blacks and have nothing to do with them.
I wonder if other African-Americans will even believe me when I tell of knowing Blacks with jet Black skin bragging of their white ancestors,and of all the multi racial people in their family.I have met Blacks who will not wear colors at all because they don't want to stand out!I can assure you there are not so many Black folk here that they do not stand out anyway!One won't touch watermelon,but says she's allergic to it.I love it so in the summer I have it every day and wonder if these people over here even know of the negative sterotype.
I feel sorry for these fools because the white folks over here love Black American culture.They love hip hop and our music,our hair and even our skin color.What they don't like is the Black African immigrants who arrive daily fleeing for their lives to economic salvation.I see the irony that most do not,but that is a part of the madness of race in this world.
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